Slow Pitch Jigging
======= QUESTION ========
Thank you for your excellent page. So much great information!
I have a question, I put a brand new spool of pe2 shimano ocea braid on my 1500hg limited ocea jigger.
I was slow pitching in 100m of water and I snagged the bottom. I couldn't shake the jig free so I put my thumb on the spool to break it off. The braid broke at the reel!!! I lost 100m of brand new braid. I was only using 40lb leader at the time. I thought it would have broken at the leader.
Do you know how I could stop this from happening again?
Thank you for your help!
======= MY REPLY ========
Ouch! I know how much that hurts.
Any PE line can break easily when crossed and tensioned. I would never try to break the snag with the reel. There's a good chance to damage your line on the spool anyway.
See the picture. You can make it easily with a piece of wood or PVC pipe, wrapped by a heat shrinkable rubber. Wind up PE line on this, make sure it is not overlapping, and then pull to break the snag.
You can use this tool to finish your knot with traction.
In case you haven't checked it out, here's Sato Sensei for the snag lessons.
Hristofor Pamyatnih Also using of gloves is OK if you fishing with thin line such as PE 1.5 I'm using buff fishing gloves and it is much easier than using of dedicated line breaker if you fish from kayak like me. Another option is to make 2 in 1 tool - soft rubber on the handle of your favorite gaff makes good job.
01/07/2015 at 22:312
first catch on the first outing with sfc arc 230 grams was not a fish :) from malta .
Japanese Angler's Secrets Hahaha! It happens! Don't give up!
28/06/2015 at 22:011
Why not pump the rod?
Let's take a close look at the pumping style and point-down style.
Lew Choolin Lim Chee Kian Paul Puah Yap Yan Sin Tan Koon Yoong Daniel Chia Daniel Chan
28/06/2015 at 21:372
Syazwan Mustafa Hassanuddin Ismail Anuar Mohamad Mat Hassan Mat Esa
29/06/2015 at 00:501
Azee Ozee Good info bro...
Para pam pam Pump ........
29/06/2015 at 01:28
Daniel Liaropoulos Probably because fish in japan are weighed in grams not kilos
29/06/2015 at 05:091
Lew Choolin Khor Wh
29/06/2015 at 09:55
Mahaputra Wijaya My only concern is the potential back pain in the future... Saw some videos fighting only using back muscles... 😁
29/06/2015 at 11:04
Dave Lim Point down style (or I call it tug-of-war style) is not as easy as rod pumping style when handling a sizeable fish, but it can be done. A humble vid to share: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9mQA15ssn-s&feature=youtu.be
No controversies to Mr Totos' modus operandi - Just do the style you believe in most. ✌
29/06/2015 at 15:174
LengTeck Tan Follow Razali and Rashid.....
29/06/2015 at 16:05
Yudi Keanu I dislike it.not so enjoy. I prefer pump the rod..
29/06/2015 at 19:254
Japanese Angler's Secrets And that is totally fine. Just be careful when you fish with a slow pitch rod.
30/06/2015 at 14:201
FT FireTiger dear JAS,
firstly, i would like to thank you for your ever insightful explanations on slow pitch jigging. I have been following this blog for the longest time. all this while i’ve been a follower of your techniques and advises. Very good info as always with regards to equipment selection, and very good reasoning with good details. Before I begin, credits are to be given to you for opening up to the English-speaking world to the entire slow pitch movement that you all have going around there in Japan.
I’ll begin here. most of the time, i’d agree with your articles, but this time i strongly disagree with this statement:
"The slow pitch rod is finely tuned to dance your jig in vertical alignment. It is NOT made to fight with the fish. It can’t. You can’t take something unless you give up something. Don’t swallow a commercial which may say, “This slow pitch rod lets you control the jig in slightest details, but still has the power to lift up your dream fish…” No No No. Do not buy that rod. You should doubt if this manufacturer really knows what it takes to do slow pitch jigging."
i’m very surprised by that very judgemental statement. just because your choice of slow pitch rods cannot be used to pump fish, you make sweeping statements which i believe is very lopsided. i used to recommend this blog to my friends who wants to understand jigging with a bait caster in general, as you have put up very good arguments on the benefits of jigging with a bait caster. i was surprised by that very biased outlook and was taken aback.
what you are trying to say sounds like this: Benz developed the first modern automobile, and you should doubt other manufacturers because you’re not sure if they know what it takes to make a proper automobile.
you must realise that slow pitch jigging has evolved since its worldwide debut, and the ensuing 'local' modifications people have made to improve certain weaknesses of the technique. Sure, Japanese masters created the slow pitch jigging style, but then people around the globe picked it up and applied it to their local waters, and improvised on it to cater for certain scenarios.
before i go on, let me reassure you that i am not affiliated to any organisation related to the fishing industry, and views held here are just my own as an angler looking for a good battle on the water, good quality fishes to put on my table, for good sport with good company. to top that off, fishing with friends that own the Grade A,B & C rods you recommend allows us to make comparisons with the abundance of alternative gears we are surrounded with.
02/07/2015 at 00:5913
FT FireTiger You'll be surprised at some 'lower than grade C’ rods that can jig well yet able to pump fish. nowadays, even lesser known non-japanese brand rods are able to properly handle slow jigs yet are able to pump fish. And these rods need not be the overpriced rods you hail above all others in your grading system. All those you put as grade A rods are weak rods, sorry to say. many are disappointed after spending top dollar on a rod and find it so limpy, no matter how good it dances a jig. A rod is more than that. it should be more than that. It should be able to pump fish as well. I strongly disagree with the theory of a proper jig rod shouldn't be able to pump fish. the designers ought to go back to the drawing board. saying a proper slow pitch rod is only for dancing a jig and should not be used for pumping is like saying a proper reel should only be used for casting and not reeling in fish. yup, it does sound funny doesn’t it?
And your reasoning with diagrams A & B to justify the inability of the rod to pump fish is flawed. diagram A with ‘arms extended’ is not a proper depiction, just a feasible way to put forth your theory so it will look passable.
imagine a crane lifting weights. you will get what i’m trying to say. you won’t find a crane with its masts pointed downwards to move objects. the rod acts as an intermediary between the angler and the fish. it is the equipment that provides leverage. it is the equipment that maintains, increases and reduces the tension. it absorbs the run, it is the tool that controls the fish, that changes its direction of run when you work it. it should be able to exert force and have sufficient lifting power. proper usage of the rod, pumping it up to 45 degrees, using your entire upper torso, locked arms, proper back positioning, breaking the fight with leg work and stance, properly counterbalancing the drag settings and cannot be justified by pointing the reel downwards and putting yourself in an awkward position when the fish is reaching for its hideout. I agree that using the reel's drag to break its run is a good countermeasure however the positioning of the body on railless boats, and choppy seas, is nothing short of inviting trouble. hence, i disagree with your theory that a well made jig rod should not be used to pump fish.
where we fish over here, when jigging for demersal fish like groupers and snappers off the bottom of the seabed, in 90-100m, you risk chances of busting out your line, rod, and wrecking the entire system if your gears are not up to it. the first 5 seconds will determine if you win or lose the battle. your Grade A rods, for example, the Poseidons, and the Beats, no matter how good it jigs, it has no power. it flexes all the way to the reel seat, and when a 6kg-over10kg grouper decides to rush into its hiding hole, a strong drag and proper rod work is required to muscle it and change its direction of its dash. sadly, those rods aren’t cut for it. PE2.5 is pushing the limits by being too thin. and the measly drag rating of the rod will not be able to muscle it out without snapping it. so what if it dances a jig well but it can’t land a charging fish. that in my books, is a big FAIL. lose a jig, four hooks, 2 solid rings, 2 split rings and God forbid, the leader or some of your main line. many battles have been lost on these rods due to the weak power.
The Grade B rods, for example, Yamaga Blanks Galahad Slow 62/4, fares much better with better lifting power yet does not suffer from lack of jig action. in fact, i have known some anglers who have traded in their Poseidons for Galahads just because of this point. it doesn’t jig badly at all, in fact, i prefer the way it works the jig better than any of the grade A rods in your list, so it doesn’t mean that they are not pioneers of slow pitch jigging technique then they cannot produce a good rod.
for the past year, a group of friends and i fished some rods not in your list, such as the Abu Garcia KRX250 and we have landed many fishes with slow jigs ranging from 150-300g jigs in 100m waters. not only are they capable of slow pitch jigging, they are able to pump fish ranging from 4kg-15kgs (snappers, groupers, sharks, cobias, mangrove jacks, GTs) without breaking it, to disprove your theory that a well made slow pitch rod is not made to pump fish. they were well used, and never abused. they were able to work the slow jigs properly (if not as good as your Grade A rods) yet are able to land fish by pumping. the rod has ample reserve lifting power. also recently,i have been able to test some prototype slow pitch rods a friend of mine has been working on. not only does it handle 150-300g jigs quite effortlessly, yet it has ample power to pump, fight and lift confidently.
maybe the types of target fish we catch over here are different. maybe they fight harder. maybe they fight dirtier. maybe it’s demersals vs pelagics.
if the rod cannot pump a fish, then i believe it is a failed product. like a reel that can only cast, but unable to reel in line. you cannot remove one function of an equipment from the things its supposed to do. that is just poor justification for a failed product.
key word here is balance. balance between dancing a jig properly, and the ability to fight a fish.
i apologise in advance if anyone takes offence for being too straight, and please do take this with a pinch of salt or just ignore this as i’m just an anchovy in a sea of fishes. i am no one. i am nothing but an angler who buys stuff with my own hard earned money. as i’ve mentioned, i usually subscribe to the theories and arguments you put forward, except for this one.
maybe you can take a look here and decide if a slow pitch rod should be able to pump or not:
thanks and tight lines everyone. pumping, or not.
02/07/2015 at 01:0016
Calvin Tan no offense to anybody, i think both style works perfectly as long as you know where are your limits
02/07/2015 at 01:472
Calvin Tan just a humble video. pls pardon for the rod slipping part
02/07/2015 at 01:481
Japanese Angler's Secrets Hi FT FireTiger. It was very interesting to read your comment. Thank you very much for sharing.
02/07/2015 at 08:015
Japanese Angler's Secrets Maybe I was being too strict with the original concept of slow pitch jigging as Sato Sensei describes it when I wrote the article. Slow pitch jigging can be enjoyed in different levels and in different variations. Every method has advantages and disadvantages. Understanding and making your choices is a big part of fun for some people like me. And after all, we fish for fun!
02/07/2015 at 08:0913
Lew Choolin very fruitful debates and sharing, majority of anglers will just like this. Cheers!!
02/07/2015 at 09:361
Ginson Tjs Its always nice to read up debates with integrity... kudos guys. With valid arguments comes improvement
02/07/2015 at 10:121
Calvin Tan yes Daniel Wong, u r right.
glad everyone is cool here
02/07/2015 at 11:212
Jeff Thng Our group is learning and still follow strictly to what Sato Sensei has taught. Afterall country of origin for SPJ is from Japan and we pick SPJ up from the japanese too. In my opinion EG and Beat are great rods. My group landed fishes ranging from few hundred grams to 80kg with these rods. We enjoyed the game and do it the way Sato Sensei has created it.
Some enjoy pumping the rod some might not. We just want to enjoy the game.
04/07/2015 at 12:476
Thank you, Kia, for your comments. In response to his requests, I have added articles on Gamakatsu Kamaitachi and Takamitechnos Ropera in in-depth study on hooks for slow pitch jigging.
Poh Kia Jin Most welcome Totos!
25/06/2015 at 19:23
Kusary Awang Safri Marat
25/06/2015 at 20:22
Amr Moselhy Tamer Ahmed Abdelrahman Kashef
25/06/2015 at 20:54
Mohd Sazali Salleh Matahari Lb Johannas Ahmad Fythullah Hamzah
25/06/2015 at 21:472
Crispin Carrasco Do you know which model I can get in USA that is like those
25/06/2015 at 22:33
Bob Major Matt Kenneth Major
26/06/2015 at 07:30
David Chen Razali Mohamad
29/06/2015 at 23:531
Razali Mohamad Terbaik ni
29/06/2015 at 23:59
Squid ink soup.
Just threw in the squid tentacles, fins, liver with some radish and tofu in Konbu broth. Add some sake and miso for flavor. When everything is boiled up, pour in the ink to finish up.
Eric Lobb Toto san ... 5*
15/06/2015 at 01:15
In-depth study on hooks for slow pitch jigging.
Why double hooks? Why facing each other?
Why light wired hooks?
What is the deal with all the different shapes?
What is the best hook for slow pitch jigging?
Shahrul Nizam Tll Asme Safry
13/06/2015 at 23:301
Jeremy Tan Khairudin Sukor
13/06/2015 at 23:38
Tien Kiet Nguyen Rhys Assan some light reading for you.
14/06/2015 at 00:181
Crispin Carrasco Thanks toto for all the information about it
14/06/2015 at 01:43
Tien Kiet Nguyen Joel Smith
14/06/2015 at 19:521
Wayne Palmer Sam Steele
14/06/2015 at 20:391
Wafik El Hert Tamer Ahmed Salem
15/06/2015 at 01:331
We have the first slow pitch jigging report from Russia.
Calling for the rod ship sharing to Queensland Australia.
One of my customers wants to share the rod shipping to Gold Coast. FedEx fee for 2-meter long package to Australia is about JPY15,500. If you could ship 3 rods in one shipping, it's JPY5170 per rod.
Would anyone in Queensland be interested in importing rods from Japan? Send me an email at email@example.com
Darren Cook Ben Wackett
11/06/2015 at 11:56
Japanese Angler's Secrets added 3 new photos.
As the season is coming to an end, Okinawa is red hot for off shore squid game right now. I had a great fun with tip-run eging today.
It's getting too hot for jigging...
The new Seafloor Control jig Arc opened a new game in Panama!
Report from Captain David.
This report really blows my mind.
No fancy tackles. Just a simple rod and reel for live bait fishing.
From an inflated boat. It's gotta be so hard to stay vertical on this as it's shallow draft and it gets a lot of wind influence.
Still, you pulled off 2 consecutive days with serious catch.
Look at the cute faces with the red snapper!!!
This is fishing.
Kelvin Chan No right or wrong to fishing. Is how one enjoys it☺️
03/06/2015 at 23:552
Fotis Veincutter You would be amazed to know how many Greek anglers (including me) read your page :)
04/06/2015 at 01:191
Novryoz Takalamingan nice,,,,
04/06/2015 at 15:27
===== QUESTION =====
can I seek your opinion on star drag reel compared to lever drag when it comes to deep water slow pitch?
===== MY REPLY =====
Definitely lever drag. You can change the drag instantly to the desired strength. This is a big advantage when fighting a big fish with light line. Lever drag is also more resistant to the drag heat during the long fight. You can put on a little tension on the free drop too, but the star drag usually has mechanical break which unables the finer adjustments.
Lever drag requires one more action when starting to retrieve from free drop than star drag. So when you do bottom bumping when you crutch on and off so often, star drag is easier.
However, the lever drag doesn't mean it's a better drag. The drag is so important in the tip-down fight style in slow pitch. The finest adjustment is required. When you compare 20kg drag and 10kg drag, a lot of people think 20kg drag is better. But 10kg drag of a well built reel is capable of finer adjustment and slow pitch anglers should choose in consideration of the fine adjustment and smooth constant dragging, no matter what the drag style is.
The respectful makers show max drag and practical drag. In lever drag, practical drag is when it's in strike position. The drag can be adjusted in fine and steady grades up to practical drag. Once past that, the drag strength jumps unsteadily to max drag weight and you can control it well. The drag weight indication is when the spool is full. So at the depth you are fishing, the actual drag is heavier.
Blue Heaven (lever drag) has been one of the most expensive jigging reels. Still, I used to think Ocea Jigger (star drag) was much better at half the price because of the drag. Blue Heaven was remodeled for improved drag in 2014, now I think it's the best jigging reel you can get now.
Daiwa has lever drag models but the speed and power balance is just not quite as good as OJ for slow pitch jigging. Saltiga 2015 new model, however, is definitely designed for slow pitch jigging. They don't say that, though. Daiwa doesn't have slow pitch experts and I think Mr. Murakoshi, the chief tester, doesn't want to use that name. Anyway, this new Saltiga looks very good for slow pitch, and it's star drag...
Ynwa Yaz Yazmie Topik pbincangan mlm tadi je ni Steven Tan... Good info
03/06/2015 at 17:25
04/06/2015 at 23:19
Hu Yee Keong Shaharulnizad Md Nian.
10/06/2015 at 21:02
Shaharulnizad Md Nian Tq sifu Hu Yee Keong
10/06/2015 at 21:051
Jon Lau Stanley Chang
12/06/2015 at 14:59
SFC jigs are here. I have a lot of people on the waiting list. Thank you all for your patience. I will send out the list as soon as I check these jigs in and we'll do the draft pick.
Jason Bauman Gibo-san did really well with the Messiahs in Kume Jima for tunas. Slooow style.
03/06/2015 at 10:031
Zizic Pakziman Sufian Bin Sumari
03/06/2015 at 10:16
I just came back from my 4-day business trip. And I have a lot of orders and questions backed up in my mail box. Just wanting to let you know that I will work on each of them. It will take a little while. Thank you very much for your patience.
Darren Cook I thought you would have staff to handle all this by now :)
01/06/2015 at 18:251
Saifudin Saleh Darren Cook, Its best he aswers with a Personal touch
02/06/2015 at 09:55
Japanese Angler's Secrets I wish, Daz, I wish. When can I see that staff of mine?
02/06/2015 at 21:37
Japanese Angler's Secrets Hi Saifudin, thank you for that. I do love helping people and that doesn't stress me. It's the retail part that doesn't like me. And the helping part doesn't help me financially. Is it my karma of some sort???
02/06/2015 at 21:45
Saifudin Saleh Personally I want to Thank You so much for your hardwork and dedication. The info you shared are PRICELESS!! I learned so much just from one page.
02/06/2015 at 21:571
Saifudin Saleh This suits you Perfectly... Sensei.
02/06/2015 at 21:581
===== QUESTION =====
What is the impact of not gutting a fish within 10 hours after being caught, assuming it is well cooled.
Does it deteriorate the fish flesh quality?
===== MY REPLY =====
It depends on the fish.
Normally no problem.
Sometimes I leave the guts intensionally when I let age the fish like groupers for 4 days even. Of course to start with, I close the fish with ike-jime and let the blood drip well. Guts have so much Umami components. I take only the gills, stomach and intestines.
With oily fish like tuna and mackerel, you have to be careful. But 10 hours should be OK if cooled under 10 C. degrees. Preferably under 5 C. degrees.
The air right above the ice in the cooler is about 5 C. degrees.
Lance Jansen Thanks for that insight.
26/05/2015 at 15:40
Eddie Fast Nope
26/05/2015 at 18:05
Close the fish with Ike-Jime!
Nathan Donoghue Thorough info as alway Totos👍
26/05/2015 at 19:391
Paul Cozens I also close my catch with Ike jime, the fish lasts and taste much better. Thanks Totos, good advice as always
26/05/2015 at 23:341
Khacc Fishing Club Totally good advice helps. Keep up the good work.
27/05/2015 at 08:401
Japanese Angler's Secrets added 2 new photos.
I shared something called "Ebing" in my site before. It is an unique form of high-speed jigging, initially invented by Okinawan fishermen a long time ago.
Today I received a message from someone who purchased the Ebing straight wire rig and learned that he had a great success! Oh my goodness, this is such a glorious fun! hehehehe! Love it when I learn something I shared made someone happy.
Excellent job Mohd Isa.
Hello Totosan, Mohd Isa from Singapore. Remember I ordered from you Ebing straight wire rig? This the result I tested at Sarawak Luconia Shoals 13th - 18th May 2015 and its work. The trip I caught Amberjack 8kg , Ajinomoto 2kg and Bonito x 2. Awesome rig and Thank you for sharing this rig.
You must have had some doubts for something which nobody else was doing around you. You may have ended up with nothing but embarrassment with the tangled line. But you kept the faith. And you made it work. Applause to a great challenger.
Muhamad Ridhwan It works ..saw it with my own eyes.awesome !
20/05/2015 at 00:444
Everyone has budget. And a lot of time you can't afford what I recommend and you want to buy. And people ask me what I recommend if they can't buy what I recommend.
I always have a mixed feeling here.
The rod has got much more to do the slow pitch than the reel. (It's the rod job to seduce the fish and hook. It's the reel job to bring it home.) I recommend to get at least Class B rods. The reel is only required to retrieve 75cm per crank at the depth you are fishing. But it can be a little less if it needs to be.
But on the other hand, the creativity is the heart of slow pitch. The basic principles can be applied to any style of vertical game. It's not that everything has to be this way or that way. Even with the spinning tackle, you can apply some principles and be productive.
This is true especially in the fish rich environment. The rod and reel can be anything. You don't have to stay vertical. The line can be PE4.0 or heavier. Just keep letting the center-balanced jig fall, and you can be devastating.
Slow pitch was born for the purpose to catch fish at the times no one else is catching. And it was born to do so in the highly competitive waters around Japan. You probably don't have to follow in every details to be successful in your field.
So, your rod needs to be Class B and better. It also can be Class C. Or it can be inchiku rod even.
But please understand I can't recommend which class C rod is better. I still don't recommend Class C rod.
Your budget also depends on your motivation. If you are convinced that slow pitch works and you like the game, you can easily go beyond the budget. The budget is just the limit that you set in order to stop you from going crazy. If you go crazy, the limit is nothing. hahaha.
So I think it's a wise idea to start with the tackle you can get easily. And then if you decide that you are crazy about it, you can save up and upgrade your tackle. But start with the light rod like power 3 and focus on shallow waters which have better chance to stay more vertical. When you upgrade, you can get a descent rod in power 4, 5 or 6 and go deeper. And you can still keep and use the cheap power 3 rod for a variety for soft action tone.
But I have a mixed feeling here also. I believe you can learn the most from the best tackle... If you are a sushi chef, you don't learn much with a dull knife.
Some of my readers have gone through this already. What do you think? What would you have to say for the people who's trying to start this game???
Jae Han Very well said. I wasn't born with a silver spoon but i do save up to buy my "big ticket" tackles. Just like you said, a sushi chef don't learn much from a dull knife.
18/05/2015 at 08:222
Eric Lobb Yes master toto i agree.ive gone through the classC now my next budget is for a classA...my dream is a EG..in australia this is very hard to obtain...ive been looking online at many good sites but always sold out....it seems there is a world wide shortage of evergreen slow jerkers.
18/05/2015 at 08:264
Paulo Pagharion Very well said sir :)
18/05/2015 at 11:521
Ken Lee "Slow pitch was born for the purpose to catch fish at the times no one else is catching" - I've seen it myself, 6 rods using bait and 1 rod using slow fall gets the fish :) and this was over a period of several hours
18/05/2015 at 14:022
Star War Slow pitch is a wonderful invention
18/05/2015 at 14:451
Japanese Angler's Secrets I was very happy to receive a message from one of my readers yesterday. When I get a message like this, it convinces me that slow pitch is good with or without specialized tackles. I believe it can be appreciated in all levels.
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR SITE!!!!!
I AM NEW IN SLOW JIGGING
I READ ALMOST ENERYTHINK IN YOUR SITE
HERE IN GRECCE IT S VERY EXPENCIVE THE RODS AND REELS…BUT…
YESTERDAY FOR THE FIRST TIME …WITHOUT SPECIAL ROD WITHOUT SPECIAL REEL…[WITH MY ROD AND REEL FOR TRIANA WITH LIVE BAIT]..I CATCH MY FIRST FISH WITH HAYABUSSA JIG…
THANK YOU AGAIN
19/05/2015 at 10:031